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Bookflurries: Bookchat: Rogues and Rascals

Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:49:34 PM PDT

Welcome to bookchat where you can talk about anything...books, plays, essays, quotes, words, magazines, and books on tape.  You don’t have to be reading a book to come in, sit down, and chat with us.

I have been watching and rewatching series one and two of Lovejoy with Ian McShane which I understand represents a lighter version of Lovejoy’s character than the one in the books by Gash that I have not read.

wiki says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Lovejoy is a series of picaresque novels by John Grant (under the pen name Jonathan Gash) about the adventures of Lovejoy, a British antiques dealer based in East Anglia whose scruples are not always the highest.

The definition for a rogue is here and Lovejoy perhaps would be number 3, for the most part, at least in the TV series.

http://onlinedictionary.datasegment....

  1. One who is pleasantly mischievous or frolicsome; hence, often used as a term of endearment.

       1913 Webster

Who else might fit into this category?  Are some lighter or darker or knaves, instead?

Rhett Butler? in Gone with the Wind

Nicholas? in House of Niccolo by Dunnett

http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Nicholas de Fleury

On the first page of the first book in the series, the central character is introduced as Claes, a large, cheerful, goodnatured eighteen-year-old dyer's apprentice, in whose wake trouble and upsets of the most grand and hilarious kind often follow. Of unfortunate birth, Claes was taken in by relatives-by-marriage of his mother's after she died, and has been raised as an apprentice and sometime companion to the son and heir of the Charretty company in Bruges.

It soon becomes apparent that Claes, or Nicholas, who at the time goes by the last name van der Poele, is a polymath and polyglot, and is turning himself into a leader of men and player of great games. He loves creating and solving puzzles of all kinds, he is highly numerate, and applies himself to learning whatever he can (languages, engineering, warcraft, courtly manners, philosophy), both for practical purposes and for the sake of learning. From apprentice, he rises to merchant, banker, master of warcraft, and adviser to kings.

Note: I do not count Lymond of the Lymond Chronicles as a rogue or rascal as so many of my friends do...you may argue with me in a comments. :)  He is my hero for all time.  If he had a smart mouth, it was always justified, imo.

Pip? when he forgets his best friends in Great Expectations by Dickens

Harold Hill? from The Music Man

Fred and George Weasley? from Harry Potter by Rowling

Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn? from Mark Twain

Edmond Dantès? when he returns with his fortune in The Count of Monte Cristo by Dumas

wiki tells the story of how this story may be based on a real story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Background to Writing
Though no proof has been issued over the years, some believe that Dumas got the idea for The Count of Monte Cristo from a very authentically similar, though very factually different story which he found in a book compiled by Jacques Peuchet, French police archivist.

Though, none of the works of Jacques Peuchet were published until after his death, a mysteriously similar story based on the records gathered from his days in the police service, was later published under his name.

Peuchet related the tale of a shoemaker named Pierre Picaud, who was living in Nimes in 1807. Picaud had been engaged to marry a rich woman, but three jealous friends falsely accused him of being a spy for England. He was imprisoned for seven years. During his imprisonment a dying fellow prisoner bequeathed him a treasure hidden in Milan. When Picaud was released in 1814, he took possession of the treasure, returned under another name to Paris and spent ten years plotting his successful revenge against his former friends.

Cyrano de Bergerac? the hero of Rostand’s story or the real man?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...  (has a picture of him)

Although it is true that he was a popular poet and a fine swordsman who fought many duels, the real Cyrano de Bergerac had little in common with the hero of the play bearing his name, with those abilities exaggerated by its author, Rostand.

Though not as famous as his classical contemporaries, Bergerac was a successful writer. The playwright Molière even borrowed a scene from Le Pédant Joué. Bergerac's most prominent work, now known as Other Worlds, is a collection of stories describing journeys to the Moon and Sun. The methods of space travel he described are inventive, often ingenious, and sometimes rooted in science. It should be noted, however, that Bergerac's primary purpose in writing those early science fiction novels was to criticize subtly the anthropocentric view of our place in creation, as well as the social injustices of the 17th century...

The model of the Roxane who appears in the Rostand play was Bergerac's cousin, who lived with his aunt Catherine de Cyrano at the Convent of the Daughter of the Cross, where he was tended for injuries sustained from a falling beam. As in the play, he did fight at the siege of Arras (1640), a battle of the Thirty Years' War between France and Spanish forces in the Netherlands (though this was not the more famous final Battle of Arras (1654)).

One of his confreres in the battle was the Baron of Neuvillette, who married Cyrano's cousin. However, the play's plotline involving Roxane and Christian is almost entirely fictional -- the real Cyrano did not write the Baron's love letters for him.

Cyrano was a freethinker and a pupil of Pierre Gassendi, a canon of the Catholic Church who tried to reconcile Epicurean atomism with Christianity. Cyrano's insistence on reason was rare in his time, and he would have been at home in the Enlightenment that came a century after his death.

He died in Sannois in 1655, at the age of 36.

Heathcliff? from Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte...I feel he is too dark for this category, but is he redeemed?

wiki says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Cathy gradually softens toward her rough, uneducated cousin Hareton, just as her mother was tender towards Heathcliff. When Heathcliff realizes that Cathy and Hareton are in love, he abandons his life-long vendetta. He dies broken and tormented, but glad to be rejoining Catherine, whose ghost had haunted him since she died. Cathy and Hareton marry. Heathcliff is buried next to Catherine (the elder), and the story concludes with Lockwood visiting the grave, unsure of what to feel.

The Highwayman? from the poem by Alfred Noyes

http://www.cs.rice.edu/...

The Highwayman

The wind was a torrent of darkness upon the gusty trees,
The moon was a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
The road was a ribbon of moonlight looping the purple moor,
And the highwayman came riding--
Riding--riding--
The highwayman came riding, up to the old inn door.

He'd a French cocked hat on his forehead, and a bunch of lace at his chin;
He'd a coat of the claret velvet, and breeches of fine doe-skin.
They fitted with never a wrinkle; his boots were up to his thigh!
And he rode with a jeweled twinkle--
His rapier hilt a-twinkle--
His pistol butts a-twinkle, under the jeweled sky.

Over the cobbles he clattered and clashed in the dark inn-yard,
He tapped with his whip on the shutters, but all was locked and barred,
He whistled a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there
But the landlord's black-eyed daughter--
Bess, the landlord's daughter--
Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair.

Dark in the dark old inn-yard a stable-wicket creaked
Where Tim, the ostler listened--his face was white and peaked--
His eyes were hollows of madness, his hair like mouldy hay,
But he loved the landlord's daughter--
The landlord's black-eyed daughter;
Dumb as a dog he listened, and he heard the robber say:

"One kiss, my bonny sweetheart; I'm after a prize tonight,
But I shall be back with the yellow gold before the morning light.
Yet if they press me sharply, and harry me through the day,
Then look for me by moonlight,
Watch for me by moonlight,
I'll come to thee by moonlight, though hell should bar the way."

He stood upright in the stirrups; he scarce could reach her hand,
But she loosened her hair in the casement! His face burnt like a brand
As the sweet black waves of perfume came tumbling o'er his breast,
Then he kissed its waves in the moonlight
(O sweet black waves in the moonlight!),
And he tugged at his reins in the moonlight, and galloped away to the west.

He did not come in the dawning; he did not come at noon.
And out of the tawny sunset, before the rise of the moon,
When the road was a gypsy's ribbon over the purple moor,
The redcoat troops came marching--
Marching--marching--
King George's men came marching, up to the old inn-door.

They said no word to the landlord; they drank his ale instead,
But they gagged his daughter and bound her to the foot of her narrow bed.
Two of them knelt at her casement, with muskets by their side;
There was Death at every window,
And Hell at one dark window,
For Bess could see, through her casement, the road that he would ride.

They had bound her up at attention, with many a sniggering jest!
They had tied a rifle beside her, with the barrel beneath her breast!
"Now keep good watch!" and they kissed her. She heard the dead man say,
"Look for me by moonlight,
Watch for me by moonlight,
I'll come to thee by moonlight, though Hell should bar the way."

She twisted her hands behind her, but all the knots held good!
She writhed her hands till her fingers were wet with sweat or blood!
They stretched and strained in the darkness,
and the hours crawled by like years,
Till, on the stroke of midnight,
Cold on the stroke of midnight,
The tip of one finger touched it! The trigger at least was hers!

The tip of one finger touched it, she strove no more for the rest;
Up, she stood up at attention, with the barrel beneath her breast.
She would not risk their hearing, she would not strive again,
For the road lay bare in the moonlight,
Blank and bare in the moonlight,
And the blood in her veins, in the moonlight, throbbed to her love's refrain.

Tlot tlot, tlot tlot! Had they heard it? The horse-hooves, ringing clear;
Tlot tlot, tlot tlot, in the distance! Were they deaf that they did not hear?
Down the ribbon of moonlight, over the brow of the hill,
The highwayman came riding--
Riding--riding--
The redcoats looked to their priming! She stood up straight and still.

Tlot tlot, in the frosty silence! Tlot tlot, in the echoing night!
Nearer he came and nearer! Her face was like a light!
Her eyes grew wide for a moment, she drew one last deep breath,
Then her finger moved in the moonlight--
Her musket shattered the moonlight--
Shattered her breast in the moonlight and warned him--with her death.

He turned, he spurred to the West; he did not know who stood
Bowed, with her head o'er the casement, drenched in her own red blood!
Not till the dawn did he hear it, and his face grew grey to hear
How Bess, the landlord's daughter,
The landlord's black-eyed daughter,
Had watched for her love in the moonlight, and died in the darkness there.

Back, he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky,
With the white road smoking behind him and his rapier brandished high!
Blood-red were his spurs in the golden noon, wine-red was his velvet coat
When they shot him down in the highway,
Down like a dog in the highway,
And he lay in his blood in the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.

And still on a winter's night, they say, when the wind is in the trees,
When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
When the road is a gypsy's ribbon looping the purple moor,
The highwayman comes riding--
Riding--riding--
The highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door.

Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard,
He taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred,
He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there
But the landlord's black-eyed daughter--
Bess, the landlord's daughter--
Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair.

   -- Alfred Noyes

The Phantom? of the Phantom of the Opera or is he too dark for this, also?

Onegin? from Eugene Onegin by Pushkin
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Eugene Onegin (Russian: Евгений Онегин, BGN/PCGN: Yevgeniy Onegin) is a novel in verse written by Aleksandr Pushkin. It is one of the classics of Russian literature and its hero served as the model for a number of Russian literary heroes...
Eugene Onegin, a Russian dandy who is bored with life, inherits a country mansion from his uncle. When he moves to the country he strikes up an unlikely friendship with the minor poet Vladimir Lensky.

One day Lensky takes Onegin to dine with the family of his fiancée Olga Larina. At this meeting Olga's bookish and countrified sister, Tatiana (Tanya), falls in love with Onegin. During the night Tatiana writes a letter to Onegin professing her love and sends it to him. While this is something a heroine in one of Tatiana's French novels would have done, Russian society would consider it inappropriate for a young, unmarried girl to take the initiative. Contrary to her expectations, Onegin does not reply by letter. The two meet on his next visit where he rejects her advances in a speech that has been described as tactful yet condescending.

Later Lensky nonchalantly invites Onegin to Tatiana's nameday celebration promising a small celebration with just Tatiana, her sister, and parents. At the celebration Onegin finds a grandiose ball reminiscent of the fast-paced world he has grown tired of. To exact revenge on Lensky, Onegin proceeds to flirt and dance with Olga. Lensky leaves in a rage and in the morning issues a challenge of a duel to Onegin. At the duel Onegin kills Lensky, then flees.

Tatiana visits Onegin's mansion where she reads through his books and the notes in the margins, and through this comes to believe that Onegin's character is merely a collage of different literary heroes and so there is no "real Onegin".

Later Tanya is taken to Moscow and introduced to society. In this new environment Tanya matures to such an extent that when Onegin later meets her in St Petersburg, he fails to recognise her. When he realises who she is, he tries to win her affection despite the fact that she is now married, only to be ignored. He writes her several letters and receives no reply. The book ends when Onegin manages to see Tanya and is once more rejected in a speech admitting her love for Onegin while professing absolute loyalty to her husband. In echoing the speech he previously gave her, she also demonstrates her emotional and moral superiority to Onegin.

Ulysses? in the Iliad by Homer...clever and crafty...

http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Odysseus or Ulysses (Greek Ὀδυσσεύς Odysseus; Latin: Ulixes or, more commonly, Ulysses), pronounced oʊˈdɪsiəs, was a legendary Greek king of Ithaca and the hero of Homer's epic poem, the Odyssey. Odysseus also plays a key role in Homer's Iliad. King of Ithaca, husband of Penelope, father of Telemachus, and son of Laërtes and Anticlea, Odysseus is renowned for his guile and resourcefulness (known by the epithet Odysseus the Cunning) (see mētis, or "cunning intelligence"), and is most famous for the ten eventful years it took him to return home after the Trojan War...

When the Achaean ships reached the beach of Troy, no one would jump ashore, since there was an oracle that the first Achaean to jump on Trojan soil would die. Odysseus tossed his shield on the shore and jumped on his shield. He was followed by Protesilaus, who jumped on Trojan soil and later became the first to die...

The Trojan Horse, the famous stratagem, was devised by Odysseus. It was built by Epeius and filled with Greek warriors led by Odysseus. Before hand, Odysseus made Menelaus swear to give him whatever he asked after they had taken Troy. Menelaus agreed.

When the Horse was brought inside Troy, Odysseus and Menelaus descended from it and went directly to Prince Deiphobos' house, where they engaged in a most ferocious battle (although some accounts say it was Odysseus who fought him and Menelaus came to find the dead body). Ultimately, Deiphobos, who was then the leading son of Priam and Helen's third husband, was killed. Menelaus was also about to kill Helen for leaving him but Odysseus took advantage of the promise earlier and made Menelaus swear not to kill her.

Han Solo? of Star Wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/...
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Solo is introduced in A New Hope as a roguish spice smuggler who, through a twist of fate, becomes involved in the Rebel Alliance against the evil Galactic Empire. Over the course of this film and its sequels, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, Solo becomes a chief figure in the Alliance. Star Wars creator George Lucas describes him as "a loner who realizes the importance of being part of a group and helping for the common good."

Robin Hood? of myth and legend

Falstaff and Prince Hal? in Henry IV by Shakespeare

Casanova?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Giacomo Girolamo Casanova de Seingalt (April 2, 1725 – June 4, 1798) was a Venetian adventurer and author. His autobiography, Histoire de ma vie (Story of My Life), is regarded as one of the most authentic sources of the customs and norms of European social life during the 18th century.

So famous a womanizer was the Italian-born libertine Giacomo Casanova that, a full two centuries after his death, his name remains synonymous with the art of seduction. But for the years he spent in the employ of Count Waldstein of Bohemia as a librarian, Casanova, "the world's greatest lover"[citation needed] — at one-time the company of European royalty, popes and cardinals, and man known to the likes of Voltaire, Goethe and Mozart — would have been consigned to obscurity...

Having spent time in Paris, Dresden, Prague, and Vienna, he returned to his home town of Venice in 1753. In July 1755, at age thirty, he was arrested and convicted for his interest in magic (witchcraft) by the Inquisitori di Stato in Venice, and imprisoned in "I piombi" ("The Leads"), a famous prison attached to the Doge's palace. Casanova was sentenced to five years but was informed of neither trial nor sentence. Casanova hints at knowing his crime, dismisses it, and does not openly acknowledge it in his memoirs.

On the first of November 1756, he escaped from what was one of the most secure prisons of his time: no inmate before Casanova had successfully escaped. He fled to Paris, where he arrived on the same day (January 5, 1757) that Robert-Francois Damiens made an attempt on the life of Louis XV — some sources say literally minutes afterwards, though others argue the time of day...

Although best known for his prowess in seduction, he was recognized by his contemporaries as an extraordinary person. Prince Charles de Ligne, a great Austrian statesman who knew most of the prominent individuals of the age, thought that Casanova was the most interesting man he had ever met and said of him, "there is nothing in the world of which he is not capable".  Count Lamberg wrote that he knew "few persons who can equal him in the range of knowledge and, in general, of his intelligence and imagination".

During Casanova's numerous travels he encountered notable figures such as Pope Clement XIII, Catherine the Great, Frederick the Great (who afterwards commented on his good looks), Madame de Pompadour, Crebillon, who was also his French teacher, Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, and many others. He was present at the premiere of Mozart's Don Giovanni and possibly made last-minute revisions to Lorenzo Da Ponte's libretto.

Although Casanova took the role of businessman, diplomat, spy, politician, philosopher, magician, and writer, with more than twenty books and several plays credited to his name (including a translation of the Iliad and a history of Poland — "Istoria della turbolenze della Polonia") — most of which were generally admired — for the greater part of his life he was a stranger to work, living largely on his quick wits, luck, social charm, and the money freely given to him by others.  Casanova was a true adventurer, traveling across the country trying new things in company with the most prominent people of his time.

The movie Casanova with Heath Ledger is a grand romp in Venice.

Now, it is your turn to share your favorites.

This diary with videos to view is a MUST see:

Look What They Did to Our Country  
by sheddhead
http://www.dailykos.com/...
 
For your great reading pleasure, I am proud to present:

A Winter's Tale  
by agnostic
http://www.dailykos.com/...

A Winter's Tale, Part II
by agnostic
http://www.dailykos.com/...

A Winter's Tale, Part III  
by agnostic
http://www.dailykos.com/...

Events on April 16th

1178 BC - A solar eclipse may have marked the return of Odysseus, legendary King of Ithaca, to his kingdom after the Trojan War.

1746 - Battle of Culloden

1881 - In Dodge City, Kansas, Bat Masterson fights his last gun battle.

1912 - Harriet Quimby becomes the first woman to fly an airplane across the English Channel.

1962 Walter Cronkite succeeded Douglas Edwards as anchorman of "The CBS Evening News."

1963 - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. pens his famous Letter from Birmingham Jail while incarcerated in Birmingham, Alabama for protesting against segregation.

1972 - Apollo program: Apollo 16 launches towards the Moon from Cape Canaveral, Florida.

other interesting diaries:

Gargoyles Photo Diary  
by sheddhead
http://www.dailykos.com/...

Favorite Books of the Candidates for President  
by fivefouranonymous
http://www.dailykos.com/...

Winter Soldier Book Now Available to Preorder  
by War Comes Home
http://www.dailykos.com/...

Obama is a teacher and why that matters  
by Wee Mama
http://www.dailykos.com/...

plf515 has a wonderful book diary on Fridays early and all day.

sarahnity’s list of DKos authors:

http://www.dailykos.com/...

plus two more:

Okay, I don't normally toot my own horn around here, but I can't let this thread go without mentioning my own book JEREMY THATCHER, DRAGON HATCHER, which Christopher Paolini has repeatedly cited as a major inspiration for ERAGON.
JT,DH is about a kid who buys a dragon's egg in a Magic Shop, hatches it, and then has to raise the creature under increasingly difficult circumstances. At heart it's about love and letting go. Works great for 4th and 5th graders, but sometimes grownups like it, too.
Audio Guy (aka "Bruce Coville")
by Audio Guy on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:15:53 PM EDT

Add ibonewits to the list of authors under nonfiction.
Amazon.com booklist
"Iraq: the bravest 1% fighting for the richest 1%." ~ An Unknown Kossack.
by Neon Vincent on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 08:36:01 PM EDT

Poll

Who Is Your Favorite Rogue or Rascal?

6%2 votes
19%6 votes
9%3 votes
0%0 votes
6%2 votes
3%1 votes
9%3 votes
9%3 votes
6%2 votes
0%0 votes
3%1 votes
22%7 votes
0%0 votes
3%1 votes
0%0 votes

| 31 votes | Vote | Results

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